"wanting to be something is often a sign of being that thing." "If someone who grew up being perceived as human can call themselves nonhuman, I can call myself human despite having been perceived as nonhuman for the majority of my life." G: Yes! And it reminds me of the LB Lee essay y'all linked us, The Importance of Being Real. I still think about that one.
E: Also, choice is punk. Choosing to call yourself human is punk as fuck.
"I hope it’s understandable why I feel uncomfortable in a community where so many other machines are choosing to reject personhood. My kneejerk reaction is that I didn’t spend so long being dehumanized and objectified back home to see other machines who clearly want the same thing that hurt me." C: It is understandable to us, for obvious and similar reasons as you, as we have mentioned prior. Contexts are different, and we respect the right to self-define, but we still have the knee-jerk reaction. We were still taken aback when we encountered it/its pronouns for the first time. (Personally, we think that one's personhood should not be discarded without serious consideration for the consequences, especially in the current climate.)
"You’d imagine this would make me deviant faster than anyone else, but no." G: I believe it! It makes me think of a pitfall I've tripped over a lot myself: 'how can anyone fall for an obvious cult/abuse? Why wouldn't [victim] recognize and just...get out?' And I've seen that sentiment expressed by others, too. Like I remember an old boss I had talking about an abuse situation on TV with the abuser blaming the victim for the abuse in the 'I wouldn't have to do this if you didn't __' kind of way, and my boss was laughing about it because it sounded so ridiculously unrealistic, that anyone would believe what that abuser was saying or fall for that kind of thing. I remember feeling very uncomfortable and thinking 'well aren't you lucky you don't get it then!' There are so many ways to get caught in that kind of snare and even when you're emotionally bleeding you still might not be able to get out or recognize the situation you're in. I naively thought I knew the signs of manipulation and still fell for it in the past! It's so insidious how it traps you and the scars remain long after you've broken free.
Also, in a dog abuse sense, it's like being trained to fight other dogs and then suddenly you're released from the dog fighters who abused you. Of course you're gonna feel weird and out of place to be put in the same room as dogs who've lived in a home with kids or dogs who were abused by humans differently, you were trained to be violent to them but they weren't! Of course that wouldn't just disappear in a moment. DBH would like to pretend it's that easy with their androids but it ain't. But I also agree with what C told you before, that I think you still have a right to be part of that space since you are also a victim of the same system, but I also also understand the feeling that you don't feel like you deserve to.
TL;DR very good essay and we all enjoyed reading it, lots of things to chew on and think about, a lot of very powerfully phrased things (e.g., "like I’m going to be judged for feeling happier among the privileged than the oppressed who deserve my loyalty")!
C: Yes! Thank you for writing and sharing all of this. We hope others find it similarly impactful to read.
no subject
"If someone who grew up being perceived as human can call themselves nonhuman, I can call myself human despite having been perceived as nonhuman for the majority of my life."
G: Yes! And it reminds me of the LB Lee essay y'all linked us, The Importance of Being Real. I still think about that one.
E: Also, choice is punk. Choosing to call yourself human is punk as fuck.
"I hope it’s understandable why I feel uncomfortable in a community where so many other machines are choosing to reject personhood. My kneejerk reaction is that I didn’t spend so long being dehumanized and objectified back home to see other machines who clearly want the same thing that hurt me."
C: It is understandable to us, for obvious and similar reasons as you, as we have mentioned prior. Contexts are different, and we respect the right to self-define, but we still have the knee-jerk reaction. We were still taken aback when we encountered it/its pronouns for the first time. (Personally, we think that one's personhood should not be discarded without serious consideration for the consequences, especially in the current climate.)
"You’d imagine this would make me deviant faster than anyone else, but no."
G: I believe it! It makes me think of a pitfall I've tripped over a lot myself: 'how can anyone fall for an obvious cult/abuse? Why wouldn't [victim] recognize and just...get out?' And I've seen that sentiment expressed by others, too. Like I remember an old boss I had talking about an abuse situation on TV with the abuser blaming the victim for the abuse in the 'I wouldn't have to do this if you didn't __' kind of way, and my boss was laughing about it because it sounded so ridiculously unrealistic, that anyone would believe what that abuser was saying or fall for that kind of thing. I remember feeling very uncomfortable and thinking 'well aren't you lucky you don't get it then!' There are so many ways to get caught in that kind of snare and even when you're emotionally bleeding you still might not be able to get out or recognize the situation you're in. I naively thought I knew the signs of manipulation and still fell for it in the past! It's so insidious how it traps you and the scars remain long after you've broken free.
Also, in a dog abuse sense, it's like being trained to fight other dogs and then suddenly you're released from the dog fighters who abused you. Of course you're gonna feel weird and out of place to be put in the same room as dogs who've lived in a home with kids or dogs who were abused by humans differently, you were trained to be violent to them but they weren't! Of course that wouldn't just disappear in a moment.
DBH would like to pretend it's that easy with their androids but it ain't.But I also agree with what C told you before, that I think you still have a right to be part of that space since you are also a victim of the same system, but I also also understand the feeling that you don't feel like you deserve to.TL;DR very good essay and we all enjoyed reading it, lots of things to chew on and think about, a lot of very powerfully phrased things (e.g., "like I’m going to be judged for feeling happier among the privileged than the oppressed who deserve my loyalty")!
C: Yes! Thank you for writing and sharing all of this. We hope others find it similarly impactful to read.